Long_range_shooting
LONG Range Shooting Related
Blackpowder-
Compliment from:
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Name: Doc Lisenby
- Date Submitted: October 28, 1998
- I have tried by Shootersolutions: Moly Fusion.
- MolyFusion in the bore of two of my custom 1000 yd. competition rifles in I shoot moly coated soft jacket (J4) bullets. I have noticed an elimination of first round "flyers" and a reduction in long range (1000 yds) group size from approximately 11 inches to around 8 inches average. I recently fired the best group I have ever shot with one of these rifles and it measured .23" for 5 shots at 100 yds.
- I consider this excellent for a 30-cal. bullet traveling at 3000 fps, considering recoil and all the other things that affect group size.
- I have been shooting in rifle competition for about fifty years and Moly-Fusion is the least expensive single item which improved accuracy in my rifles.
- Date Submitted: October 28, 1998
-
Name: Doc Lisenby
- 1998 Long-Range Discussion Group:
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- Doc Lisenby
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I'm getting ready for a thousand yards match March 20. I have a new shooter 20 yrs. old with good eyes whom I built a rifle for - I treated the bore with Moly-fusion, also the action and he got several comments from his buddies as to how smooth the action functioned . He was mildly interested in high power shooting, so I broke out my old Garand and cleaned the bore, then treated it with Moly-Fusion thoroughly, and used 168 gr. Sierra to load it. ... I fell in love with it all over. I can shoot accurately enough at 100 yds. to want to enter this kind of competition again but I'm too old to get in the positions, and in the iron peep sight there is a fuzzy place in the center which blocks out the front sight.
Even so, I put several shots in a three inch bull. When I kept cleaning it every five shots, I kept having to change the sights to get a new zero. I was shooting Moly’ed bullets and it still metal fouled. The pro benchresters are saying not to clean as often and just wipe the bore with Kroil and Shooter's Choice mix. Of course it only has a first treatment in it.- It's 60 degrees here. ha ha. Doc [Lisenby]
Compliment from:
Subject: Long Distance shooting.
-
- 5/4/99
As for the MolyFusion. My buddy used it in his 22 Win Mag. He coated the bore with cleaner first and then put the MolyFusion on top of that. We shot our 22's about 400 time each this weekend. My 22 mag was not treated with anything and it ended up noticeably dirtier than his. Both 22 mags were Marlin 882SSV's.
Jonathan, please feel free to use my testimony to promote your products. This is truly amazing stuff. Thanks for your patience on my feedback. I'll keep you posted when I get new results.
T W, Perry, OK
Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 1999 12:34 PM
Jonathan,
The application procedure we used on to break in our varmint rifles was to coat the barrel with a good, wet application and stroke the barrel about 10 times of abrasive. We then shot the gun and repeated the application until it we had fired 20 shots. We used a cleaning patch as the transfer medium and a cleaning rod. The only downside that there may be to this process is that you have to be out on the range to fire the gun. Other than that, it should overcome all the other downsides.
My buddy only used the Moly-Fusion product on his .22Mag and not anything else. The gritty details is that he heated the barrel slightly with a propane torch and applied it as the instructions directed. he used the foamy material supplied with the kit and kept swabbing the bore for 10 minutes.
By the way, I have heard of something like this being used in Jeff Gordon's car, but haven't heard any more details. He was obviously doing more than anyone else.
T W
Perry, OK
Hello Jonathan
Nice to hear from you. I did get the MolyFusion and abrasive as ordered. Thank your for your prompt service. I did not let it gather any dust, but alas Gunsmiths seem to run on a different calandar than Gun Nuts. I only got my rifle back a couple of weeks ago, and not in time for my first trip this Winter. Any way upon receiving the rifle I gave it a thorough cleaning and then gave three treatments of MOLYFUSION. I have no idea whether the MolyFusion "took" or not as I could not see any visible difference in the appearance of the bore. BY THE WAY THE BARREL IS NEW STAINLESS. I then took a supply of Winchester factory Supreme Failsafe Ammo to the range to run in the new barrel. THE MAIN THING THAT STRUCK ME DURING THE RUN IN PROCESS OTHER THAN FOULING WAS VERY VERY MINIMAL AND CLEANING WAS VERY EASY, WAS THAT THE BARREL DID NOT GET HOT AT ALL. This is a Sporter Barrel of standard Remington dimensions. The Primers said LOW PRESSURE, and head expansion was virtually IMMEASURABLE with dial calipers. I wish I could say accuracy was good but I could not. Upon returning home I examined the bore, bedding, etc, but could not find a reason for the figure 8 groups.While looking at the new WINCHESTER FACTORY SUPREME AMMO I NOTICED THAT THERE APPEARED TO BE TWO DIFFERENT BULLETS LOADED IN THE CARTRIDGES! I pulled the bullets and sure enough the BULLETS WERE OF DIFFERENT SHAPE. I then sorted through all the cartridges, Lo and behold there was a roughly 50/50/SPLIT OF CARTRIDGES loaded with each bullet. these cartridges were from the SAME lot and case. I then made up some hand loads using Moly coated Barnes X Bullets AND RETURNED TO THE RANGE. BARNES X BULLETS ARE NOT NOTED FOR THEIR MATCH ACCURACY OR THEIR SUITABILITY FOR HIGH VELOCITY/LOW PRESSURE LOADS. HOW EVER GOING BY THE RESULTS I GOT DURING THIS RANGE SESSION I WILL DEFINITELY BE EXPLORING THIS COMBINATION FURTHER. EVEN FULL THROTTLE LOADS LISTED IN THE MANUALS SHOWED NO SIGNS OF HIGH PRESSURE. AND AGAIN CLEANING WAS A SNAP! GROUPS SHRUNK TO AROUND AN 1" AND THE FIGURE 8 SHAPE DISAPPEARED, AND THE BARREL WAS ONLY WARM EVEN AFTER 5 shot strings! CLEANING at the range was accomplished using SWEETSHOOTER, AND AFTER 100 RNDS. SWEETS 7.62 COPPER SOLVENT WAS USED TO CLEAN ANY COPPER FOULING left from the BARNES pure copper bullets. SWEETS 7.62 is an excellent copper solvent and an EXCELLENT indicator of the amount of COPPER fouling there is in a bore as your patches come out in VARYING SHADES OF BLUE depending on the amount of copper in the bore. YOUR MOLYFUSION/SWEETSHOOTER combination MUST BE doing the right thing AS MY FIRST PATCH CAME OUT PALE BLUE and a second one showed NO COPPER AT ALL!! WE ARE HEADING FOR THE HILLS in two weeks time. ... I MUST SAY THAT INITIAL IMPRESSIONS ARE VERY GOOD. BY THEN I'LL PROBABLY HAVE TO ORDER M0RE OF YOUR SWEETSHOOTER!
ANY FURTHER INFO WILL BE GREATLY APPRECIATED
Sincerely Yours, LEE(Caps use are Customer's.)
- 5/4/99
I applied Moly Fusion and Sweet Shooter to the bore of my new Shilen 29" 300 win mag barrel. It is a select match grade stainless barrel 1.2" straight cyl. with a 1 in 15" twist. Having never shot it without the treatment I cannot say if it made any difference. However, I was able to develop a load that pushes 150 grain bullets to 3641 fps and prints 0.500" 3 shot groups @ 100 yards consistently. Last weekend my dad and I were busting one gallon water jugs at 500 yards! I've yet to develop a load for best accuracy, I've been having too much fun shooting long range with this one. I don't think the 300 win is capable of much better until I reload the once fired brass and get a competition seating die. Here are the load specs:
Bullet: Berger 150gr Flat Base HP, Moly Coated Powder: IMR 4350, 77.3gr
Bullet Seating: Off the rifling 1/32"
Velocity: 20 shot average 3641 fps
Standard Deviation: 19 fps
Signs Of Pressure: High, firing pin dimple slightly extruded into pin hole on the bolt face. Primer is very flat.
I applied Moly Fusion and Break Free CLP to a Cold Steel Carbon V knife blade. Using the instructions, I applied the Break Free CLP after making it like grease with the Moly-Fusion three times allowing it to dry between applications. After a week I put a thump print on the side of the blade, no rust yet after a month! I live on the Texas gulf coast where this blade will rust overnight if it is unprotected. Great Stuff!
Hopefully within a month or two I will be able to test them in my .243 for some before and after data. So far though, I'm very impressed!
Thanks, J H
Comments:
Well, at the very least, you can see that Moly-coated bullets are compatable with the MolyFusion experiments to-date in long distance shooting. Also the above customers who have used these products together are ecstatic. One customer wrote back in all-Caps, I sign of exuberance, I presume.
RECENT (2001) RESULT FEEDBACK:
"Jonathan
. . . . I used the MolyFusion on my .308 FAL, an all stainless steel carbine from DS Arms. After the treatment, I noticed that the surfaces felt "slickery" to the touch and the external surfaces (which I treated as well) were just a bit darker than the factory new finish. The main difference I've noticed is that the whole rifle "cleans up" very easily after firing. Wow! Two "wipes" down the bore with a bore mop and benchrest solvent followed by two dry patches and the bore is CLEAN! I'm amazed!!
Not sure about any accuracy improvements yet, but the FAL is a short (16" barrel) rifle and accuracy is not it's claim-to-fame in the first place. I find a bigger
accuracy variance due to switching ammo brands - which is probably not a function of MolyFusion treatment. Federal Match Gold does the best for accuracy in my rilfe (1.5" groups at 100 yds) but a bit pricey at $1/round." Bruce, Mechanical Engineering, MS 3/29/01
"From M... Galieh in Australia... Thank you for this update. I am in fact, soon to apply Moly Fusion to a new Gun barrel I have had fitted. On a barrel previosly treated with MolyFusion and Sweet shooter. It is really reallynice to shoot. It just can't foul at all! Nice groups of course, though the main problem with the groupings is me. The gun is a heavy barreled job, and I am using top bullets with neck turned brass so in this case the workman very definately cannot blame his tools. The group sizes (5 shots) ranged from 1 MOA to 0.3 MOA. The 0.3 MOA "felt right" and was because I had a consistent hold on the bench. The other groups were more sporadic because of my inconsistent holding of the gun. I need a lot more practice. But, thanks to you in part, IT IS NICE TO HAVE THE PROBLEM THAT THERE IS NO PROBLEM WITH THE SHOOTING SYSTEM EXCEPT MYSELF. Once I improve my consistency, it will be tackhole alley!"
Posted as such:
Great! So what kinds of groups were you getting and with what Ammo? Is this a new style DSA (W/ milled on Brake) or one of the earlier ones? I had mine Cryo'd and treated with MOLYFUSION it shoots Great! At least MOA is the norm. - Sometimes better with Black Hills 168 gn.for the scoop on this MolyFusion. GOOD STUFF! http://www.shootersolutions.com/molyfusion
October 08, 2000
June 29, 2001
It works great on my M1 competition: after 1800 rounds shot through this tuned rifle, and no retreatment of MolyFusion yet, and just lightly cleaned with Sweetshooter, it still shoots two-shot groups (offhand!) at almost through the same hole (.01") at 100 yards, when it should be at 1 inch groups at this barrel life regardless of anything else. Unbelievable results are achieved with my 58 Cal competition Muzzle Loader as well! When I can in the next two weeks, I will send you a video, copies of the groups, as well as sending a copy of the groups to Clint, my rifle tuner. Clint is the one who said that the MolyFusion sounds like it worked: he is amazed, his others don't achieve this.
Next group: (2):
I have used this stuff on all my Rifles and pistols. It performs as billed. Clean up is a snap with it! 100 Rds. Cleaned up with EXACTLY 3 wet and 3 Dry patches. Slicks up the action and trigger as well. Really great as a rust proofer. Leaves a dull look to your weapon.( unless you want it otherwise then just rub some oil on it) http://shootersolutions.com/sweetshooter/index.html
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From Louis and his use
in his Custom-Built M1 specifically for him by Clint in 2000 he has been using to shoot and in competition , and it still performs great after 1800, I think rounds of nothing but MolyFusion when new
and clean-up with just patches of anything, since it doesn't foul, it still holds amazing 3-shot groups at 100 Yard test-firing,
where his groups should have opened up to about 4 inches under the bore-use it has been shot, according to the rifle-builder. It is now
consistently outperforming what it was capable of, brand new, as custom
built as it was then. (Phone conversation.)
"I will e-mail to you all you about the rifle and it's performance with both products. There is a match tomorrow and next Sunday at Camp Perry, Ohio. After those matches ... information regarding the rifle's performance." - Louis Famiano
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